Sunday, February 11, 2007

What Do You Think?

PANTS: Making A Real Difference

Ok. Part of the reason I posted the video is because as early as Friday morning I've been trying to post something on all the letters/anonymous comments in addition to all the pants-haters. Some videos ranged in excess of 15minutes and used all sorts of examples. This video is the shortest and prolly the kindest.

As far as PANTS goes. I honestly don't think any of them are delusional, I don't think they think they are going to win by sitting on their laurels (such as Gator). However, this is not your ordinary election either. For starters, voters won't see three or four choices, they will see only "2." Second of all, students won't see the Independent community split in many factions, they will simply see Indies that stuck around and rolled up their sleeves for a fight against the odds -- and they will see the full leadership of a so-called Independent Party now congregated beside the Gator Party handout-line. Thirdly, they will see a strong Independent Party that acts like an Independent Party, campaigns accordingly, and that releases statements accordingly. Fourth, they will see the transformation of a candidate that initially made a mockery of SG and now is running a serious campaign -- and really, just how frustrated does the average student get with SG? They usually don't understand, hell sometimes I don't understand it? So what do they do, some don't vote (old Iron Fist style of collecting placards to throw away), some laugh at the system (Pants, Fall '06), and some want radikal change (Put Your Pants On Right Now).

While Gator can safely count with the FBK, Greek, and AA blocs, I believe that by election time PANTS will safely be able to count with the Indie/GDI bloc. Now yes my little math majors, that's only one bloc to four, however, we're no longer talking annihilation, we're now in the bloc-conversation, where one bloc could conceivably turn into two and then it's all different ball-game as they say.


For the first time in a long time Mainstream Greeks and FBK are irrelevant in a campaign. That's right! This elections, at least at this point, is not between "the System" and "the Indies", rather this election is about a feud for control of the Independent vote. As has been stated time in and time again, the FBK, Greek, & AA blocs are for the most part behind Gator...but the Indie bloc remains in the air and Greeks nor FBK's will have much of an impact in how this key bloc is awarded.

There is very little movement in the Gator camp. If anything key mainstream leaders' eyes are glued on the Indie community b/c this decisive battle will call the spirit of the 2007 Campaign trail. If the turncoats are able to keep the Indie support they are currently boasting of, then Gator will easily secure victory and may not have to spend as much money or put as much manpower to work as it normally does. If PANTS secure the community they gain a bloc...if PANTS gains a bloc, then whatever the haters say, no matter how cold-hearted and Gator faces a rival with some (even if minor) clout and that changes the entire ball-game.

I am of the opinion that right now, PANTS has a way's to go, I'm not delusional. Right now the turncoats are still credible. Destroy that paper-thin credibility through word-of-mouth and inform their supporters of what they've done and that cred and backing disintegrates. No paper trail, mere word of mouth will do it. And there is no need for slander or libel, simply pass on current information and that act will go a very long way. Long-term...I see PANTS gaining the Indie bloc and fighting for Greek votes in very real and impressive ways. I am also not going to rule out minor support from the AA community, but I'm not going to give away all the secrets, b/c then no one will buy the book;).

Let's also be clear in that this Indie support is not as subjective as many of you might think. Around the mid-February mark you will be able to sense who's leading in the feud; by the week of the election the backing of the Indie bloc will manifest itself in very tangible ways. There is a goal in sight, PANTS I believe, will win the feud and the bloc.

I think too many SG=insiders are clouding their judgment with looking too far into this race. Gator has already been invited to the big dance, they're good to go. However, for PANTS the internal battle with the turncoats is going on right now and they need to emerge victorious there to join Gator in late February. So please, keep your comments on topic, b/c the election and who'll win that is too far away, yes even in early February.


Anonymous said...

Christian I am the anon that gave the over under of 2800 votes and respectively my dear friend I would contend that you are on crack. Look at the results of the fall election at the sg website. There were roughly 7,200 votes. There is no way there will be many more than that cast in this election. The Alligator is hardly covering it and no one will care who doesn't have a stake in it (i.e the Greeks, multicultural communities, and the student orgs). The VAST majority of that support is for one party. Last fall the three "indies" (Nina, Chris and Bruce) got 2,725 votes to Artutro's roughly 4,300. Nina's support was largely from sororities who will have no reason to vote for Bruce, Chris's supporters have largely gone to Gator. Bruce recieved a lowly 444 votes. If he breaks 2800 It'll be an accomplishment in and of itself.

Anonymous said...

Josh hates David? Who would guess that?

Anonymous said...

Its all smoke tricks! Its the Pants party people posting back and forth to themselves! Hah!

Christian Duque said...

Spring always has a higher voter-turnout than Fall (so there is "some way"...and even though last Fall's election was diff b/c cuz of the veep race as well, it still fell leagues short of a presidential race).

While the Alligator "doesn't care now" as you put it, are you aware that slating ended virtually just a few days ago and that they covered the candidacies in toto?

You are correct, the VAST majority of the bureaucracy (or those who according to you "have a reason to vote") will in fact vote Gator. However, if PANTS becomes the the official GDI Party then it could be that the supporters (that blindly support these leaders) may vote differently.

Also let's not forget the dynamics of Fall. Arturo led Nina because Arturo also counted with a huge senate slate...I assure you, had Nina had a senate slate she would not have won a mere 22pts to Armand's nearly 60 (is this a point you were willing to at least consider?); #2 for all intents and purposes Bruce was not mounting a real campaign; & #3 there were four parties total -- now there's 2 and they represent polar extremes.

Next. The idea that sororities won't have a reason to vote is in my opinion a slant to Nina. If anything she mobilized women and in so doing (at least for a few elections), I think Greek women will care A LITTLE BIT more about who they vote for and the power of their ballot thanks to Ms. DeJong. Now that's not to say they will support Pants or Gator, but I think you are mistaken by their interest in the democratic process and I think your mistake might cost Gator some backing.

Chris's supporters are not with Gator. Chris's turncoat Party leadership are with Gator. Don't gamble that GDI will pick Gator w/ Jardon over Bruce & the grassroots, up-hill, tough as nails, DIY Pants Party.

You try and sell Gator over Pants to the Indies in Engineering & LS...I'd love to see you sell it.

But to recap. I enjoyed your post and when I said you were on crack I was ribbing you, so I hope you didn't take any serious offense. I enjoy your posts and thank you for them.

YM said...


You make some good points about the independent leaders moving back and forth. My question though is and always has been there were people like Jamal that went from the "dark" side of the Ignite Party (remember they faced your beloved Student Alliance Party) to the good side and were "indie" leaders.

Why can't others do the same? Why do you give Jamal a free pass on it (Andre as well)?

As for the indie leaders selling out, you say the Action Party leaders that support Gator will not bring indies with them. I don't completely agree, but see merit in your arguement. If indies, truly are independent and free from this corruption wouldn't they have the ability using their independence to look at the candidates, evaluate the criteria of a good exec/senator, and determine that yes this person can run.

Unfortunately, I don't think you are willing to give indies that much credit. You believe that indies blindly run away from all Greeks.

Not that I like Republicans, but if you look at the Gainesville Sun's article about Charlie Crist in Sunday's paper, it describes the great job he has done in cross over to even Democrats. Why can't we think that an Greek backed SG leader can cross over and appeal to the "moderates"

Christian Duque said...

A fine post and since it's directed at me, I will answer it promptly. Why I give Jamal a 'free pass' is because he wasn't an Indie...Jamal and Jared were very similar, except for the general composition of their parties.

When I got to UF I wanted to be Greek, but didn't know anything about SG, so I worked for Ignite for two elections and in so doing starting discovering I was working with the wrong side. Naivety was my defense, but in the case of Jamal (and good on you to have included Andre) it was opportunism.

I worked with Andre, he was no Independent, not like James or Frances. Andre was as much an Independent as Jared, Chris, or Robert Mack (good people but not Indies).

At this level of the game, I cannot give Tommy Jardon a Jamal Sowell free-pass esp. since I never gave it to Jamal, but at least with Jamal they were empowering Indie's by way of 50 to perhaps 60% of their party with real GDI's in Frances & James. Where are Gator's Frances & James? Where is there commitment to the Indies? BUY OUT BABY, turncoats that want power does not equal empowering the Indies.

I don't believe Indies run away form Greeks, even if you watched the current video you'd know that. If you followed my SG career or that of Peter or Ricky Caplin you wouldn't say that. But if you're new to the blog and don't know any better, I could see it and believe you me I'm not offended, just want you to know that's not how I think (if you even care in the truth).

I don't know what Crist has to do w/ this, but who's the Greek candidate that crossed over to do good by the Indie's side? Oh you mean Bruce? Cool! B/c to my knowledge Moseley hasn't crossed so much as a street, if crossing the street means pouring a cup of broath into the empty bowls of turncoat indie's is your idea of crossing the grand old Greek/Indie divide, then I don't know what to tell you.

I like your post, good questions, but like the Clinton/Wallace interview...I think you intended to be fair and then took potshots at me in a couple of areas. Stil thank you. Take care.

Anonymous said...

Your logic is so incredibly flawed its ridiculous, apparently the Indies who went to Gator believe theybcommanded the bulk of the GDIs, yet you believe that they will automatically be supportive of Pants. Like the email you published by Tommy Jardon, the indie leaders went to Gator for the fact that Moseley is the most qualified candidate, and you fail to even acknowledge that the the GDI population will see this extremely blatant fact as well.

Christian Duque said...

The GDI population will see their elite-legacy-like leaders hob-nobbing with Mainstream Greeks & FBK's before they see anything else. Either you underestimate me, PANTS, or perhaps you underestimate the art of propaganda -- but either way you're in for a big surprise, so keep it hateful & hurtful, I'll talk to you on the other side :c)

Anonymous said...

"indie leaders went to Gator for the fact that Moseley is the most qualified candidate"

I'm one of these so-called turncoat indies, and while I don't have much to say on the larger issues being discussed here I will say this:

Its not about qualifications, its about who will do the job in a manner which benefits the students the most.

Not qualifications; propensity to perform well at the job he seeks.

I simply don't beleve Bruce will make a better SBP than Ryan.

Ashley Suggs said...

We're all gators. We all go (or went) to UF and we an about the student body. Why not stop pitting people against each other and start working together. Whoever you support, you support because YOU think they're the best. If that's what you believe than stand behind it, but don't ever degrade yourself by ridiculing another person or chastising them for their choices. I find it funny that the leaders of our school, whether in SG or any other organization, find it appropriate to lash out and fight with each other, like 5 year olds on a blog. Grow up, discuss ideas, be open to people's decisions, and at the end of the day work for the students.


Ashley Suggs said...

ps. that was my first blog comment and it was pretty exciting! ;)

I guess just reading the ridiculous comments got old, but I'm mostly referring to the post before this!

Christian Duque said...

Great first post (if you say so). The same aspect, in your case "fighting like 5yr olds" or in other's cases "it's just SG" all try to minimize the significance of SG and try to play it down. If this site were a Gator site you wouldn't be saying that.

There is a concerted effort to disarm PANTS and there are people trying to accomplish this in a variety of ways. If you truly think the battle for the bloc or for change in SG is so childish, then how can you rationally explain your constant patronage of this site, reading all the posts to be able to comment, and then to comment in two posts and be proud of yourself for such.

You attack people for fighting over SG yet you're totally open about being proud of yourself for a comment on a blog that blogs about things you think are trivial.

I don't follow the logic, but that's mainly because the logic isn't to chastize SG, it's to disarm a movement. Time to go out and grub.

Take Care.

Ashley said...

Oh goodness it seems I didn't know what I was getting myself into, although there is a certain charm in checking back to see if anyone has replied to your comment. However, I feel your reply may be misdirected because I don't think you understood the purpose of my comment.

I am not attacking people who read blogs, and my "constant patronage" actually began a week ago when a close friend of mine had horrible things written about them for no reason.

And yes I did comment on your blog, twice, although the second was to lighten the mood and if you knew me perhaps a comment someone would expect, I am not making light of SG or proclaiming it to be trivial. My post even ends with "work for the students".

I believe SG is very important and using blogs such as yours for an exchange of ideas is also great, but don't criticize people for their choices because you don't agree with them.

I simply was trying to make the point that maybe we should work together and if that's not possible, at least keep from criticizing peoples character. (again I am mostly referring to the last post from you with the 40-something comments)

And, lastly, don't assume I would not post my comment on a "gator site". My comment had nothing to do with politics it had to do behavior. I support a party and it's candidates, but I also have friends and colleagues that may have a different opinion.

So with that I think I'll be ending my blog commenting career...I hope this clears up what I was trying to say!

Christian Duque said...

Finite posts are never finite. There is nothing to be ashamed of in visiting or posting on a blog. It's not like a heroin problem or an addiction to underground porn. Hopefully you'll continue living on the wildside, visiting this blog, and COMMENTING.

Commenting is good. :) Take Care.

I have many posts that are 40-something long, some are even 50+. We have some long posts here..

Anonymous said...

Ashley: You are simply wrong. Those who run in the opposition have seen the corruption of the other party.

This isn't like someone deciding to run with the Democrats instead of the Republicans. This is a system where the Republicans pay the Democrats X money for Y seats (see Ryan Day).

This is a system where running in the wrong party destroys any chance of getting money or a senate seat (see Alpha Chi still blackballed for working with Unite).

See the fact that Accent has NEVER had a female chair person. Why? Because it always goes to the same frat.

See how Ryan Nelson, a former supporter of the system who joined Unite, couldn't get a pill passed after he changed sides. See the same with Jordan.

In my example it is worse than one party rule by a Democrat administration.


On the upcoming race? Pants should never have joined. They should have let us return to the indies and lead them to victory spring of 08. Instead, Pants has destroyed the indies. But this is politics names will be said, nice people will be slimed, and gossip will run rampant.

ym said...

So you don't give a free pass to Jamal (or Andre) yet you include them (Access) in every possible post when talking about the good of the indies and an indie campaign. That confuses me Christian.

Which is it? Was Access a noble indie led campaign or was it just opportunists with different support?

While I am no fan of Andre's, I know that his ability to learn on how to run a campaign partially came from learning on those "Greek" tickets. Even you "learned" something by being involved in those Greek tickets.

Yes a choice in a democracy is always good, but Bruce is not a true choice. The same way that SAP kids were not a true choice. Bruce from my knowledge of him is extremely capable person, but an SG leader?

One of your indie leaders that you have talked about before Fernando Nin, used to talk of a meritcracy, where the most able leaders would advance. Isn't that what the Gator Party has done? Advanced the idea of working in cabinet and other organizations to get ahead. You don't need to be an SG politico, but rather a good student leader.

Why not look at the fact that E.J. is going to be on their ticket? Is IRHA not an indie community?

You have blasted Dennis for the "no deals ever" platform. But think it's horrible when the Greeks would do that. I won't argue whether deals are made, but makes one side wrong to offer them and the other side right?

If the indies won by offering deals to a disenfranchised house wouldn't that house be a sell out.

Chris said...


I figure the historian in you would see the bigger picture. It is clear that Gator is going to run away with this election. But that is history repeating itself. And if history does repeat itself, next year is the real fun election. If you recall, my race against Nikki split the Greek community (ala John v. Jared). Then, the following year, Kyle took care of business, because he made some good moves and people were tired of fighting. (ala Ryan this year). If you recall, the following year, a certain friend of ours ran the table and won an unprecented election. His name is Jamal for those of you that do not remember that far back. Next year will be the battle. Plenty of "insiders," as you call them, will jockey for position. But, there will likely be another that is outside the community with a good reputation.

That all being said, Ryan has earned his shot. His is well-liked, so far as I know and/or hear. What is the problem with a Greek/FBK/Insider president, if he will do the right thing? I submit: Nothing.

Go Gators! 10-0 in SEC play so far.


Anonymous said...


I must say your comments are by far the most logical and needed comments on this blog. Thankyou for saying the things that should be said. We need to work together instead of "pitting people against each other."

-SG newbie
(it's my week next week)

Anonymous said...

Suggs's comments are simply rehashing of past "logical and needed" arguments said countless times in the past - nothing new. Working together and frolicking in the meadow of happiness and love is dandy to an extent for newbies; but talking kindly on a blog doesn't change much in the way things get done unless she chooses to stand up and verbalize those necessary intentions within Senate.

Anonymous said...

To the Gator tool who believes JClay is a brilliant political operative. What did this Sig Ep bloke do in Ohio in 04?

Anonymous said...

11:35 PM: Josh start signing in okay? And can you post the emails you sent Christian?

Anonymous said...

Just why did J. Clay choose to step down from his senate seat for? It can't really be because of absences...

Anonymous said...

I vote for Fei Long (Peace Be With Him!)

Anonymous said...

Your Fei Long crap is truly losing it's appeal, and after the upteenth post it is just stupid.

Anonymous said...

I hate to be egotistical, but I can only assume I'm the Josh referred to here, and I haven't sent Christian any emails.

Anonymous said...

I hate to be egotistical, but I can only assume I'm the Josh referred to here, and I haven't sent Christian any emails.

Ya like a prima donna loves collaboration. We call bullshit.

Christian Duque said...

I love Suggs! Whoever that is. By all means keep comin back and posting. Email me if you ever wanna talk 1:1, I am widely respected by many people on both sides of the aisle (and matter what you ever hear, there are only two sides...the Keys & Indies, but you'll find good people in both arenas).
mark *private* if not for publishing.

Anonymous said...

Your argument makes no sense. If I was the egotistical jackass you appear to think I am, I'd be claiming I had sent the emails. To draw attention to myself or whatever silly reason you want to think I'd have.

Honestly, I really have no interest in SG outside of the few minutes at work I spend reading this blog and commenting, and I definitely have neither the interest nor the time to pen massive missives to Christian that don't even get published. So thanks for playing.

Anonymous said...


I don't know where people get off saying that IRHA is an indie organization. IRHA turned in its indie card long ago.

Anonymous said...

Anon 11:33,

I wholeheartedly agree. There are two senators on the IRHA exec board (both Swamp), a President who will more likely than not win his campaign as Treasurer of Gator, and EJ's girlfriend who is also a member of IRHA exec who will undoubtedly do anything her man does. Indie has left the IRHA building.

ym said...

IRHA turned in its indie card?

What party did one of those exec parties run for back in Fall 05? Perhaps her friendship with John Boyles has something to do with it for Fall 06.

As for E.J., what party has he supported? Show me the pictures of him wearing the t-shirt. Show me him at the meetings. Show me anytime, he has truly been political. He has never politick for anything but better service for the dorm kids.

I look at the fact that Moseley selected him (not something that E.J. campaigned for) as proof that the Greeks are reaching out to the indies.

I would also look at the rest of the IRHA membership to see where their loyalties lie. How many of them have their letters to any Greek organizationl?

Anonymous said...

IRHA turned in its indie card?

*What party did one of those exec parties run for back in Fall 05? Perhaps her friendship with John Boyles has something to do with it for Fall 06.
-Friendship/Infatuation has something to do with it; in addition to the fact that Graham was up in the air, and if it wasn't for ties to Swamp, she most likely wouldn't have won the senate seat.

*As for E.J., what party has he supported? Show me the pictures of him wearing the t-shirt. Show me him at the meetings. Show me anytime, he has truly been political. He has never politick for anything but better service for the dorm kids. I look at the fact that Moseley selected him (not something that E.J. campaigned for) as proof that the Greeks are reaching out to the indies.
-I think E.J. is a great individual and leader of IRHA, but yes this is something he's wanted for quite some time. Just because someone doesn't "campaign" for an exec ticket (which is stupid, because you just don't do that)doesn't mean they're not partial .. him and Boyles are also best friends.

*I would also look at the rest of the IRHA membership to see where their loyalties lie. How many of them have their letters to any Greek organizationl?
-As mentioned previously, the IRHA auditor is Swamp party spokesman; RYMAC president is a Swamp senator; IRHA VP is a Swamp senator; Beaty Towers Pres. is a Swamp senator.

Don't deny the facts simply because they don't fit into your opinion.

Anonymous said...

"Beaty Towers Pres. is a Swamp senator."

He's also in the same fraternity as Bruce.

Anonymous said...

Chris Carmody,

Your campaign against Nikki split the Greek community far more than the Jared/John campaign. Unite had nearly no Greek backing. It's just a fact outside of 1, 2 houses they had no greeks. It's just false.

ym said...

Is it something E.J. had thought about, maybe... But yes, people do actively campaign for such positions. And E.J. did not do that.

As for him and John being friends, I don't see what that has to do with him losing indie credibility. If he was friends with Jennifer Puckett (Access VP and former IRHA President) would be lose credibility as a System candidate. If he was friends with Mr. Moritiz, would he lose credibility. The simple fact is that losing indie credibility because you are "good friends" with someone is silly. That's like saying someone wears a red shirt must be a communist. This is guilt by association.

Concerned Citizen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

We know you're not Attila the Gator.

Sam Miorelli is.

Concerned Citizen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.