Monday, November 23, 2009

New Diet Phase 'n Training Heavy!

Today is Day1 of 10. It's time tweak my body's insulin resistance and hawkishly monitor sugars, protein, and bad fats. I lost about 50lbs since stopping my diet in early October. These next 10 days will set the tone for the next stage of fat loss. I'm at around 290 (up 10lbs. creatine/waxymaize intake) right now and expect to be down to 265/270 by mid-January (still on 10g of creatine and .75-1g/lb protein). At that point I'll look to enter my first show, pull the supplements and lose 10-15lbs of water and walk on stage ripped to the bone at 250/255.

I can tell you right now... that at 250 I'll be amazingly vascular and cut -- but I also know I'll want to keep that crispness and those cuts, but I'll hate being so small. That's where it's going to really get tricky. What will I do?

Treadmill, Stairs, Elyptical... PAIN is PLEASURE

Monday, November 16, 2009

Grapski in Hot Water

My good friend Charles Grapski was found guilty of 2 out of five charges in court and it's becoming very likely that he will serve hard time in state prison. Grapksi led the independent movement in the 1990's and won a six-figure lawsuit against a secret society that has influenced (to put it mildly) our University's Student Government for decades - no closing in on a century. This secret society still has a huge chunk of reps and senators in Florida's Congress, not to mention the United States House of Representatives.

Whatever your campus politics may be (b/c at UF SG stays w/ us for a lifetime... it's undeniable that Grapski left a huge mark on the scene and influenced countless student leaders to take up positions of leadership, public service, and social justice not only in Gainesville, but abroad. Grapski is a friend to the GDI Movement and we wish him only the best.

Wednesday, November 11, 2009

Stupid Government Wrong Again

I wonder if the United States Congress strives to one day see American men with bigger breasts than their wives and more fat that Barney from the Simpsons. Fat lardasses, huffing and puffing after climbing a flight of stairs, croking in the infancy of their 'old age' from an assortment of easily preventable illnesses from diabetes to cardiac arrest.

Anabolic Steroids shouldn't be illegal - that's the biggest crock of shit the gov't has sold you - the American public. With the exception of a little acne, some hair growth, and slightly higher cholesterol levels... AAS have jaw dropping benefits. Everything from birth control to astma inhalers to sexual health products to legal-overpriced "hormone replacement therapy" (try getting your HMO to pay for that...lmao) fall under the umbrella of AAS and bio-identical drugs.

Look at Arnold... Mr. Olympia, top-paid Hollywood movie icon, 2x Governor of California -- Steroid User. He was on the gear in the 60's when he was taking photos with the Blonde Bomber (Dave Draper); he was on the sauce for all 70's Olympia streak; he was juicin for his 1980 "comeback" where allegedly won the contest...; he was saucing for the Conan movies and NOTHING! Sly Stallone was taking a truckload of HGH and everyone went to watch his movie and he's doin just fine at like 130yrs old with shredded abs, flaring quads, peaked out bi's, horseshoe tris, and a chest that's hard, balanced, striated, and cross-striated. The guy looks amazing!

Anyways..why the post? Well as I was doing cardio this morning (3:30AM), I started thinking about how fucked up it is that WADA just banned Androstratrione (the very last pseudo pro-hormone [pseudo b/c it doesn't actually increase test, it inhibits estrogen)]. The stupid politicians are all in the hip pocket of the pharmaceutical companies -- they're the biggest drug peddlers out there and they will charge Americans at 20:1 rates, as compared with their Canadian counterparts. Our government let's these whitecollar hustlers to get away with it.

Low testosterone ain't healthy you stupid mf'ers!!! People in this country stuff their faces with grains (look at what kids are eating is school -- SHIT! CARDBOARD CARBLOADED SHIT!) We have shockingly high rates of gyno in men in this country -- MEN SHOULDN'T HAVE TITS! MEN shouldn't suffer from ED at the high rates they do in this country. Do you know that in 2003 and 2005 the Federal government cracked down on all pro-hormones? Do you know that in 2005 the Federal Government made Ephedrine 10x harder to obtain and actually raided supplement companies? Do you know that RIGHT now, thanks to the bozos at WADA, even anti-ESTROGENS are being removed from the market? You can no longer find the following on

Novedex XT
Methyl 1-D
11 OXO

It's 2003, 2004, and 2005 all over again. I heard LG Sciences has agreed to destroy over $1.3 million in inventory (according to a message board thread on a popular bodybuilding website). You'd think the supplement comapanies have lobbies? You'd think they'd duke it out with the morons on Capitol Hill, but not the case. It's just easier to go back to the labs and hack new molecular chains to create even more complex, less tested, less understood chains for new lines. That's probably one of the biggest issues I have w/ the government. They ban first and ask questions later... they have conducted virtually no clinical studies on AAS and yet they continue to speak with a level of certainty that's not only straightfaced, but damn near sinister.

The few clinical studies (double and triple blind studies) from respectable institutions readily dismiss such absurdities as "roid rage" and AAS related behavioral conditions. For those of you obsessed with test-shrinkage -- realize that the change is temporary (and the most testes will reduce in size is 20%). This 'shrinkage' is reversed with proper off cycle therapy (where the body naturally restores levels in test/E ratios - the idea of PCT is to help the body take back control of its normal processes.

I swear... you run into so much ignorance out there, even within the halls of academica, so many morons out there. Anyways, I've never taken, but the second they're legal, I'm taking a test drive. Though I'm blue to the core (Democrat), I had so much respect for Fmr. Speak Newt Gingrich just came out said it in his Little Red Book of the Republican Revolution - I still have that somewhere at home in Florida. I would have seriously considered voting for that guy on ATTITUDE alone. He openly admitted smoking DOPE and he'd sleep work his ass off all night, wakeup in his office, and go around the Hill with his hair all messed up and his shirt all wrinkled. I loved that guy... that's a workhorse and they fucked him - his own party and his own colleagues -- b/c you can't actually work in D.C. -- it tends to upstage all the bureaucrats filling their pockets with checks and then unloading all sorts of nonsense on the ill-informed (by choice) public.

If there were more Newts and a few more Dennis'es and a couple Ron Pauls in for good measure -- policy might still shift back and forth along party lines, but I wouldn't be posting this thinkpiece right here and you'd all have a hell of a lot more freedom.

Monday, November 09, 2009

Merger Talks: A Look Closer

Indie Unity is a mutual goal for students and alumni alike. Ater almost a year of division, the Officials and the Progs seem poised to dialogue, but when asked what the most difficult hurdle would be for a merger, some were willing to share - and others - in the hopes of not 'stirring up trouble' opted to keep their comments private (meaning, not for publication).

"The clowning and sophistry that's been used by former O&B leaders has got to make way for effective activism in the name of our interests in Student Government.

Fernando Figueroa
Progress Party Supporter

To be fair, Figueroa's initial response seemed almost to match this blog's to the "t." Fernando, like TheRadikal, represents a large segment of the Indie community that wants a merger, but does not want the the Progs to lose that grassroots edge in global matters and that flare for campus activism.

Who Are The Negotiators?

Cavataro, Ossip, Sautin, Morales, and Hargrove

Schneider, Mildebrath, Martinez, Wooten, and Garrett

My dinner is ready. I'll be adding more to this post.

Friday, November 06, 2009

Charles Grapski Prepares for Victory

After a long, often-questioned and largely written-off political stalemate between progressives and neo-conservatives in the City of Alachua, it seems now everything is coming full circle. Grapski, a staunch critic of Florida Blue Key and UF President Bernie Machen, is all for beating the charges on their merits - or lack thereof.
Resisting Arrest with Violence
(3x) Battery on a Law Enforcement officer

In an informal chat on the website, Grapski and Christian Duque of discussed matters dealing with the present legal case, as well as media coverage. Grapski believes that Gainesville Sun editor Jim Osteen refuses to cover him in a positive light, he also believes the Alachua County Democratic Executive Committee is a joke - I agree with him.

Grapski expressed his desire to beat the charges, making mention of plea deals he's rejected that would have made the charges go away, when attached to time served.
"Sun's managing editor Jim O'Steen has told a member of the public on several occasions that they will not write anything on me that is positive. I'm not making that up."

Charles Grapski

I, personally, don't know what Mr. Osteen may or may not have said, but I've let him know of this post and I do hope he'll write back so that I may include his opinion(s). I will say that if it is true, I think that the paper's readership is done a great disservice.

Thinking Outloud wishes Charles Grapski all the best in his legal battle, as well as his attorneys Joe Little and Steve Bernstein. Charlie and I haven't seen eye-to-eye on everything in a long time, but he remains a HUGE historical figure and source of inspiration for the UF Independent Movement. Grapski's case made the world (but maybe more importantly the UF student and alumni communities)aware that a secret society existed, that a secret society ran the school through a 'good ole boy network'; that the Independent movement DID have a purpose and we were about a lot more than simply being 'the other guys', the people not in the top tier houses or the pretty boys with congressional district seats waiting for them upon graduation. Indies and GDI's (both democrats and republicans -- really rather a moot point for SG) owe Grapski a huge part of their history - this is why guys like Thomas Jardon and Justin Wooten (polar opposites in non-SG political matters) both consider Grapski a huge influence insofar as student leadership goes.

Grapski, Kerns, Argento, Duque, Gruskin, Jardon, Haupt, Miorelli, Dictor, Trimboli, Wooten, and ..... are the independent movement. We have a history and a legacy and this site is just a little proof of that.

And the legacy isn't about which guys ran the biggest parties or won the most votes... an example... Robert's Unite pounded Haupt's Pants -- which yes sounds a bit RAUNCHY...but... the point is, in terms of Indie History, Haupt is a federal senator and Roberts is chairman of a local, rural, deep southern Ad-Hoc Mosquito Control Board. No offense to Adam, but his party ran a candidate rejected not once (but twice by the Machine), it ran absorbed a "party" comprised by jocks with the combined iq of a pigskin, and it fathered more turncoats than Gene Simmons of KISS has had one night stands.

Awesome Pic, New FB Friend
I, too, am pushing for a merger...
but I want guys like Fernando & Justin &
Grasshopper to be included at the table.

Wednesday, November 04, 2009

Trimboli's General Statement

"We are about winning, because if we don’t win we can’t do what we’ve set out to do.

Everybody has lost sight of this fundamental truth. Egos and personalities have been the sole driving force of the Independent Movement since the end of 2008. (1) Viewing what we do through these two lenses is both self-serving and accomplishes nothing. We cannot claim to speak for those students outside the current system who lack a voice in our Student Government while at the same time centering everything on individual people and personalities rather than on policy and action.

So where do we go from here?

First, all markers need to be abolished; that is to say the abandonment of both party’s names, color schemes, and slogans (2). The single biggest obstacle to the unification of any sorts of groups is overcoming each individual group's cultural markers. In the case of nations those are things such as languages, symbols, religions, education systems, and history (including historical figures). In our case these markers are primarily party names, party colors, and party slogans. The ideologies of the two parties are congruent (3), it can hardly be said where one ends and the other begins. This unification needs to be a merger of equals in the truest of senses and the only way this will be accomplished is to start tabula rasa. The only thing from the past that need be remembered, held onto, cherished and never forgotten is the hard learned lesson that divided we are doomed to failure.

Instead, we need a new set of markers to rally around.We need a brand new party name (4), a new party slogan, a clear and concise party mission statement, a set of core party values, a new color scheme and a battle plan of action created and planned in detail for the Spring 2010 campaign and beyond. All of these things should be created by those dedicated individuals in the new unified party, created for the new unified party and agreed upon by the membership of the newly unified party.

There is thousands of years of historical example about the absolute power of cultural markers. People have traveled the world searching for cups, died for colors on cloth hanging from pole. We are being intentionally ignorant and naive if we feel we're going to break the thousands year old power cultural markers have on men's souls. (5)

These conditions of merger should be irrevocable for a minimum of 2 years. (6) That is to say the former names, specific primary color schemes, and slogans of the former two parties are off limits from January 1, 2010 until December 31, 2011. After that time their strategic value can be assessed.

Victory is not out of reach if we choose to work together as brothers rather than perish apart as fools."

RaDiKaL' Review
First off, let me just say this FOR THE RECORD - Joe Trimboli is SG Royalty and has earned his Indie Wings, Brass Bars, and Major's Clusters over the course of internal party scrapes, bureaucratic wrangling, and media blitzes that have stretched as far as the student leader' imagination will reach. This is like 80's hair metal folks, it's not just the sound coming out of the amps, but it's about the LOOK the musicians got goin on and the attitude with which they play their instruments! The fact Trimboli wrote this - with me at least - carries a fuckin wheelbarrow's worth of cred to begin with. Is your ego chubby now Joe? I'm glad I could stroke it for ya...

Now let's dissect this lovely document.

(1) This sounds like Official' rhetoric for Ben Dictor, but he includes the term 'movement,' instead. This could be the start of a sensible new approach to conceeding some of the brunt - that I imagine will be appreciated by the Prog-hardliners like Wooten, Grasshopper, the Geico double, and others.

(2) This will meet with friction from alumni like Ben Dictor and Sam Miorelli - who both built a lot of blood, sweat, and tears (yes even some tears) into these names and neither will be pleased see their legacies chucked in a 2yr wastebasket. Both Miorelli and Dictor while officially-speaking are detached, remain very much in the loop (by alumni SG standards [e.g. James Argento, Access Spring, Summer 2004]).

(3) This, in my opinion, is going to be a hard sale. Progress has a very dynamic, structured world view (thanks to Dictor, Schneider, and Wooten) w/ considerable overlap into SDS, strong links the Civic Media Center through Joe Richard, and even with smaller sector at least somewhat aware of more fiscally conservative policy with the influence of Josh Simmons early on. O&B is no where near the political maturity of O&B, however, O&B bests Progress in chambers and in representing those left-out students that are at the very core of Independent politics... Bring me your tired, your hungry, your poor...

(4) Trimboli is going out on a limb here... a new name is very fair and should be considered by the opposing side. I think there are some ideas out there... unite the indies and gdi's, put up Renfroe for president, stack up the senate slates, make nice w/ the Fist, moon FBK, have a run off, and win. Who knows... you might even count Paul Drayton as a supporter. Is Ms. Renfroe in FBK? I hope so, be kinda lame if they screw her over like Sam Green.

(5) Ok, seriously... who gave Joe the shroom juice? What the hell is he talking about here? lol

(6) Let's work w/ one semester at a time. That's like going on a first w/ a girl and planning with her what some of the things you'll do when she's your girlfriend. I realize you're hoping to reunite the indies so that you can electorally have a circle jerk around the losing FBK-backed candidate next Spring out in front of the Orange & Brew in front of thousands of spectators, but these things take time. I am confident that if the indies truly unite, whoever is the Greek candidate will leave the Brew without the presidency and with a triple pearl necklace of mardi gras elegance.

(7) Also, let's try to clean up the language in here. I'm trying to keep a respectable blog here.

Tuesday, November 03, 2009

SG Heavyweights Chime In

"I think Progress has a great image in the eyes of the Student Body. They've also been endorsed twice and received twice the vote of OB in the fall.

I think, if there is a merger, it should be under Progress


I think there are probably some clear ideological differences. Tomorrow's debate on the Zionism Bill should demonstrate that

But I am sort of out of the loop.

Yanuck also voted No on workers rights."

Fmr. Sen. Ben Dictor

Facebook is crap. I had all these great quotes that I'm hoping I can get at some later point. In any event, let me actually give an opinon on the whole matter. Give me that I'm graduated as of almost four years and that I've been away from the ville for almost two years.

For starters I want to re-introduce some key terms from the movement.
Independent - a member of a party that doesn't serve FBK/Greek interests; also known generally as 'Indies'; Indies can be Greek-affiliated. (examples: Ricky Caplin (PIKE), Becca Guerra, Kevin Bacon (Lambda Chi), Thomas Jardon,Adam Roberts (ZBT), Andre Samuels Kappa Alpha Psi), Andrew Hoffman, Alan Yanuck (O&B), etc.

GDI - the G*d Damn Independents - these are the ultra-Indies; usually found in very indealistic, usually dead-end parties (see Student Alliance, Pants, Voice, Progress['09]. These guys/gals are often "on the fringes" and while they usually are kept out of Indie Party exec.'s, they are often consulted and used for everything from intell to recruiting to fundraising to canvassing to endorsements in second round elections. Heavyweights here include: James Argento, Kenneth Kerns, Dan Fitzpatrick, Peter Gruskin (FIJI), Ryan Nelson (UNITE), Frank Bracco (O&B), Travis Marsh (KEG), etc).

Hardline GDI - this is a new classification that's truly warranted. These are your GDI up a few knotches. (see Christian Duque (FIJI), Justin Wooten (Progress), Joe Trimboli (O&B), Sam Miorelli (O&B), Ben Dictor, etc

I want to see a real Independent party that's going to work like Orange & Blue does in chambers - that's not going to cozy up to 'the Machine' through proxies like Eric Conrad, but that's also going to have the sense not to slate turncoat bozos like Eric White turned out being. On the other hand, I want an Indie party that acts like Progress outside of the mundane world of the third floor and has the ability to have a SOCIAL CONSCIENCE - a party that chastizes its members for voting AGAINST migrant worker rights, a party that's in the trenches with student leaders from other universities when it comes to the sweatshop movement, fair trade products on campus, sustainability programs, standing up to Washington and now allowing Universities to churn out cannon fodder for the military (get the recuiters off campus and away from college events --- like they've done in Berkeley!!); I want an Indie party that's going to be out there with the Andrew Meyer's and the families of slain victims of police brutality in Gainesville/Alachua County. People always talk about our carbon print on earth, well I want UF SG's indie party to leave a footprint on the system.

I don't think Dave Schneider is a sell out and I don't think Wooten really does either, but both parties have done great things - in different directions. The ideal party would have O&B's standoffish-partisan qualities legislatively speaking and Progress well-rounded/informed world view and commitment to social causes insofar as off-election/off-season efforts to keep the campaign staff and manpower occupied as opposed to dormant except for essentially four weeks out of the year. The Indie soldiers should be like the men of the U.S. Navy on vessels around the world -- every single day is war, the discipline on a ship is sky-high, the men and women are always ready, it's the being ready part that's the real challenge, war for them (is just icing on the cake).

The System has piss-poor campaign people, most of which are comprised of pledges working against their will for the first phases, followed by a second phase consisting 1st and 2nd year house members house members, followed by a thrid phase consisting of ethnic minorities that have sold out for a few more dollars in the A&S budget, and finished by a fourth phase that includes the top party brass and candidates. Orange & Blue gave that machine a severe fat lip and set of black eyes not too long ago. Reuniting the movement - UNDER THE RIGHT CIRCUMSTANCES could be just what the doctor ordered.

I want Justin Wooten at the table. He's a nut - this is true. I'm a nut too - if he's a walnut, I'm a chestnut. But who gives a shit. I want Justin Wooten at the table, I want him to have a say in any talk of a merger. Otherwise, any meeting you have, will have the air of 12/11 -- please don't leave the blue-collar Progress or O&B people out... have the hardliners from both sides at that table Wooten & Yanuck and let them both be content with the outcome...otherwise... if it's just Trimboli & Schneider (for example), both guys represent a huge chunk of the movement and both guys want victory in Spring, but it's repeating the ages old injustice of the moderates shaking while the often exploited and fanatically-loyal hardliners get shafted in the wings.

Let's say Yanuck was a Zionist... let's just say he was, that's fine. Let's say Wooten (like myself or PG) would scream and holler for the '67 borders and for Palestinian rights. Let's say there's merger talks and these are there and fight it out for a while before talking peace between the two parties - SO FUCKIN WHAT?! The indie leaders are so scared to have it out, to fight, to argue, that that very fear is what's going to keep the two sides from reuniting.

There's some issues that need closure. The GMG Emails are bullshit - Progress needs to let go and quit demanding an apology --- was there wrongdoing? sure, SG Happens, at least the lights didn't go out. The 12/11 meeting... O&B needs to admit those were a sham - or stay silent. As far as party names go... have a convention... Progress got more votes, but a NAME shouldn't make or break UNITY. Though I will say.. O&B is a pretty FBK/Greek sounding name, but then again... just like Dems can push for Family Values just like the GOP (Republicans don't OWN family values), so too the Greeks don't own SCHOOL PRIDE, so it's really not fair that the Indies can't be proud Independents and proud Gators, too.

Just some things to think about.


FYI: the pastey white dude's name is not "Ramon,"
it's Armando's middlename

Monday, November 02, 2009

Yanuck Responds; Wooten Stands Firm

Is Alan Yanuck Ditching O&B?

"On O&B turning on me:

I've heard nothing about this, I think its merely a product of our largely college democrat roots coming to head with the fact i'm a staunch republican and took an opposite stand on the resolution.

I'm sure it'll blow over as we get back to Student Government internal work, such as executive appointments, corruption, etcetera.

i totally forgot to address me joining Unite

I've been joking about it, but i thought it was obviously a joke

Sen. Alan Yanuck
Orange & Blue Party

"He literally showed it [messages from Unite's Regalado] to me and talked openly about it in front of Midlebrath, Ossip, Graham, Donte, and I think TJ Boyd.

At a Sushi place after Senate."

Justin Wooten
The Progress Party Hardliner
(Title as of now given him by

For yesterday's post I posted a question based on some allegations I'd been hearing. I contacted Sen. Yanuck today and asked if he could give his take on the matter - mainly b/c it's critical to his reputation, as well as his character to be able to defend himself in this forum with every resource available. He not only refuted the allegations, but delievered a very well written rebuttal. Still, we're not really going for the best written answers, as much as we are with the truth.

Sen. Yanuck is a good guy, Wooten is a good guy. I just want to get the low-down with as little fillers and additives as possible - so that I can then relay it to you guys and my beloved alumni so out of the loop they think Library West is still closed.

Here goes...

"One moment, let me get the numbers.Students for Justice in Palestine request $5,795 for their group. Among the activities they wanted to hold were 'Winter end of Semester Social' where essentially, we provide them with 150.00 worth of food for them to serve to their members..

This event would cost a total of 460.00 with publicity. Several events which are happening in the SPRING, when we were giving them a fall budget these events totalled 1,515+755+855+60

As well as an event where we would, full price, send members of SJP to a conference in new hampshire which they could not demonstrate would provide any benefit to the student body as a whole, but merely to the people who went Student Government policy always has, and probably will continue to be, that these kinds of events will not be funded for very good reason, as spending 450$ to send a few students to new hampshire is a very expensive benefit to only a few students when we attempt to provide the greatest possible benefit to everyone on the floor, i made an amendment which would have struck a further 150$ from the budget.

Because they wanted to spend 150$ to put a stage up in Plaza of the Americas on being asked what benefit this would provide, they merely assured me that it would provide benefit. In the end, this amendment was not seconded, and I voted to fund them, despite this minor objection.

I have no idea when I became 'racist against arabs' and find such claims to be completely ridiculous.

We merely told them to ask for funding for their spring events in spring, and that SG should not provide money for socials or for conferences with no return benefit.

To me it seems that this wouldn't have been an issue at all if the group hadn't been inherently political, and i'm not going to overfund any group regardless of its agenda.

The Senate Allocations Committee couldn't have funded even 10 requests of this group's original size.

Its simple, I never do thinks I think are dishonest or wrong and i'm a decent enough debater that I can justify what I do."

- Sen. Alan Yanuck
Orange & Blue Party


I'd like to express my deepest gratitude for SBP Jordan Johnson for never getting back to me on my interview requests. I look forward to the upcoming elections.

"Where is Armando Grundy in all this?"

Sunday, November 01, 2009

Progress & O/B May Merge...

over Wooten's dead body!

In what will surely be a developing story, the Progress Party' workhorse has shared shocking takes with He claims that 'all is lost,' coming to grips with his belief that [Dave] Schneider has 'sold out' and is all but certain to lead the way for a merger.

Wooten believes, as do I, that Progress has gone much further than any student government party has in a long, long while - and - to merge with O&B would be a step back politically. Let me clarify MY point.

I believe now, as always, that O&B are the The Officials; I believe Progress are the The Progs; I believe both are 140% Independent, even if it can be argued only one is GDI. However, I believe only Progress has taken the initiative in taking a student political party to the next level in 1960's style & beyond.

I have a TON of faith in Dave Schneider -- so let's start this month out right and let's address the issue of Dave 'selling out', let's hit on Justin's concerns about Alan Yanuck allegedly, royally screwing Arab/Muslim student groups insofar as allocations and the fiscal budget goes, and let's also talk about what benefits could come from the Officials and the Progs working together again.

Let me also put this out there: I have a TON of faith in Joe Trimboli & Frank Bracco - even if these are not the current leaders (now or ever). I believe O/B does have a lot to offer as well, but I know they won't go the places Progress has outside of SG - I also know (to their credit), they won't warm up to The Machine like Progress has.

Also... address what's been gained by Progress warming up to Unite and more. Before I even dignify the notion of a comeback... let's see if the 'ole comment section can still light up like idk ... 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 :)

Oh wait... and last, but not least... Wooten says he would never break away and form a new party from under Progress... but I've been around the game myself and I know that if a merger did take place -- hardliners opposing it (from both sides) would probably not find much love in the new outfit. So... my question is... if the hardliners are in fact left out in the cold - do they disappear from the scene or WHAT?

When the war was over - they told John Rambo to go back to being an ordinary citizen.. anyone that's seen First Blood knows... that didn't work out according to plan.